Update on Two Guys and a Prom

The kid told me that Chaucer called the other day and that today they would hang out after church and figure out the details for the event. I was glad that Chaucer was still interested. As the kid mentioned the Constance McMillen case, I asked him if he thought that had anything to do with Chaucer, he said no, that the agreement to go was long before Constance McMillen became a news item. He said that he knew that if he went and petitioned the school board for permission to go it might stir up a little frenzy, but that he is certain that if he and Chaucer just went, no one will care.

Last year the Song family tuxedo went to prom on a woman with her same sex date. I knew that. But as I mentioned in the Truth is Stranger than fiction post, I had forgotten that Girl Song had also went to the winter formal with another girl. I told the kid about this. He did not remember. This was eleven years ago. The kid thinks just about anyone can take their same sex date to a prom without it necessarily being a federal case-although he did ask us about how we felt as you will recall from the earlier Two guys and a prom posts.

I asked him if gay kids he knew were surprised that being from a Mormon family this had been relatively painless for him to arrange with his parents knowledge. He just dismissed us as being "liberals." Nice, I guess. I don't feel as though it is quite that simple. You know his "kind of a Homo" Mom would actually, if given the chance, still select a girl for him to go to do high school dances with. Which is strange because, if someone asked me to arrange a marriage for him, I do not know which sex I would choose, because I now have some pretty big questions as to just what his sexuality is and whether or not he could maintain a mixed orientation marriage or same sex marriage with or without a testimony. One night is not eternity, although I am surely certain for a teenager a bad prom night can seem like eternity.

It Takes One to Know One or Birds of a Feather Flock Together

Recently, friend from my ward shared that their transperson child had said that I was the only person in the ward they could possibly talk to about the church and sexuality. I rather doubt that the friend has shared what they know about my own sexual anomalies with their child, but I wasn't at all surprised that a transperson could identify a commonality with me. At a later time, I'll blog about my early teenage desires to be male-I think it has a lot to do with societal expectations of beauty for women and with my fear I had then of domestic violence.

The Wacky Taffy that Resulted in the Formation of my Inner Homophobe-Part 2

Let me preface this post by saying a few things: First, I do know wonderful LGBT people. Second, I think this is, in an odd way, part of my grieving process for my Drama Mama. And, Third, part of the reason why I'd rather see my kids not involved in some of this activity (including the heterosexual equivalents)-let's face it, it IS downright weird.

The Professor Prefers Men

When I returned from my sojourn in the city of my grandmother, I briefly went to a four year college for two quarters. I didn't have enough money, Drama Mama would call me every Friday morning weeping because her marriage to wicked stepfather was falling apart (appropriately so) and I just didn't know how to solve certain problems I was having. I can't remember what I did then-I am getting so old. This had to have been when I worked in a garment factory-that too, is a tale for another blog. By this time Drama Mama had moved to another state.

I decided to go to community college. DH was there, we were not publicly engaged, but very obviously a couple. The final semester I was taking a science class from a very old, but very GQ professor who had never married. DH had been his lab assistant at some time in the past. Anyway, he and DH were friends. The professor asked a question in class and I raised my hand and gave an answer based on what I had learned the previous year at the four year university.

He then started ridiculing me in front of the full class and when I asked him what he believed the answer to be, he told me to leave physically threatened me and came toward me like he was going to throw me out of the class. At the doorway, I turned around and told the professor that I thought his behavior was very unprofessional and that I would be reporting it. I went immediately to counseling where they told me that this professor had a long history of being unable to deal with women and harassing his female students.

Believe it or not, I did go onto finish the course in this man's class and did get a suitable grade from him. He retired that June, under pressure, I understand. His then current lab assistant explained it to me, the professor was gay, he was jealous of the relationship that DH had formed with me. I heard this over and over in the community. And, then I remembered, the professor lived down the street from me and I HAD seen a constant stream of young men going to his house when I lived there, but never thought much about it. DH claimed the professor never approached him or did anything inappropriate, but the then current lab assistant said that he had had a talk with the professor about ceasing inappropriate and too frequent butt patting.

My Dearly Beloved Brother in Law the Early Years

When my Brother in Law (BIL) came out, I tried to be especially supportive. Remember, I was a card carrying Mormon with two young children. BIL was a social maladroit before coming out and although DH loved him (he died young of a heart attack), and he was a good person at the core, he had issues. Anyway, BIL lived in the same town we did, and we spent a lot of time with BIL. BIL was with us when our first child was born taking pictures.

One day BIL, DH and I were sitting in my living room, my children were napping and we all comfortably settled in just to relax. DH stretched out on the couch, I was sitting in the chair on the opposite side of the room, and BIL was leaning up against the couch while sitting on the floor right in front of DH's knees. DH fell asleep while BIL and I were having a conversation. I can't remember the topic, but it must have had something to do with gay issues, because BIL suddenly got on all fours and crawled up close to DH's face and said, "Poor DH he has never been kissed by a man, shall I kiss him now?"

Somehow, I managed to croak "No." Lucky was BIL that I was both young and so shocked as to be nearly speechless. BIL was not joking, nor was he drunk or on any kind of drug. Had this happened any time in the last twenty years, I would have so torn his sorry fanny to pieces over that it would be unrecognizable. Needless to say, in spite of my youth, that incident began a vast distancing for me in trying to be supportive of BIL's issues surrounding his coming out. Luckily for BIL and for us, he soon met the love of his life, Cervantes, and that gave BIL someone else to fantasize about kissing other than my DH.

La Conquistadora

DH's first job out of college involved route work. He was trained by La Conquistadora who was a butch lesbian who was very good at what she did. She also took pains to educate DH about her prowess with females. She was especially proud of her "conversion" stories. These were straight women that she had shown the way to happy lesbianism. It was interesting to hear of the Harley riding La Conquistadora and when I met her, she wasn't quite as Butch as one might have expected.

But, La Conquistadora wasn't just about the stories. No, she was determined to show DH the results of her handiwork, so she made a lunch appointment with one of her conquests for her and DH to have lunch at this woman's house. DH went and had lunch. La Conquistadora told him all about how she had persuaded this woman to start dating her, the woman left her husband, and although she and La Conquistadora were not a couple, they were still good friends.

At the time I thought this was quite weird. DH was both fascinated and weirded out. In retrospect, I wonder if this wasn't a serious recruitment attempt of DH for fun and games. Thank God for DH's commitment to our relationship is all I can say looking back. DH changed jobs shortly after that.

Oh, the Things You Can Do With a Salami

We were living in the Bay Area by this time and DH was in managment. One of his sales people became a good friend of the family. George had originally moved to San Francisco from the East Coast because he thought he might be gay following the break up of his long time marriage. After unloading the U haul and settling down into a garden apartment in the Mission District, George ventured out onto the gay scene. He was quietly sitting in a gay bar, hoping to strike up a conversation, when a man in a superman suit jumped up on the bar and started dancing. Stuffed down the leg and strategically positioned was one of the long rolls of salami that can be bought in most Bay Area supermarkets.

George said he knew without a doubt that he was NOT gay after this incident. By the time we met him, he was a happy promiscuous lad with a rash . . . This being the Bay Area, we also met the lovely lady who gave him the rash . . . Ah, the eighties, so memorable for their excesses in every way: Joe Montana, Huey Lewis and big hair.

My Dearly Beloved Brother in Law the Later Years

After several years in a relationship with Cervantes, a bout with cancer, and a failed attempt to launch a career, BIL became obsessed with a new social movement and became a part of the childfree subculture. Yep, these are the people who basically demean breeders, those of us who reproduce. BIL and Cervantes were not interested in having a family of their own. As BIL put it in a letter to me, Gay men could not have children together (this was only twelve years ago and I was expecting my fourth child, baby song-my how times have changed). He was pretty darn nasty about the whole thing and asked not to be named our children's guardian. Yes, we card carrying Mormons had at one time named the weird gay uncle to be the financial guardian of our children with my Drama Mama as the guardian they would stay with. I digress, but as you might expect BIL and Drama Mama actually got along quite well.

Cervantes was the one bright light in all this. I think BIL was spiralling downward into the pits of despair. BIL was lucky to find him. To this day Cervantes is our friend and he and DH still correspond. Thankfully, Cervantes is a good counterpoint to what BIL was.

Conclusion

So these are the highlights of the baggage that I carry around even as a person who has been attracted to both sexes and these are the things that spark the fears I have as a parent of a child who will be going out shortly into the rainbow world of gaydom. Will he go for the Wacky Taffy or will he choose something more substantive? Let's get real it's scary for any parent's inner homophobe, even for one who is "something more than straight" and not from the most traditional LDS family origins.

The Wacky Taffy that Resulted in the Formation of my Inner Homophobe-Part 1

Let me preface this post by saying a few things: First, I do know wonderful LGBT people. Second, I think this is, in an odd way, part of my grieving process for my Drama Mama. And, Third, part of the reason why I'd rather see my kids not involved in some of this activity (including the heterosexual equivalents)-let's face it, it IS downright weird.

Drama Mama and her Scene

My earliest experiences in life were with my Drama Mama's family, her brothers, her mother and our landlord. The second phase of my life that I recall, included lots of wonderful activities with my little Sis, grandmother and Drama Mama's friend "Penny." Drama Mama met Penny in nursing school before she was kicked out and the two became best female friends forever until distance of four states separated them. When I see the two lesbians on Evolving Lesbian's blog banner, I always think of Drama Mama and Penny with Drama Mama being the voluptuous brunette and penny being the perky, shorter blonde tomboy.

I do not think that Drama Mama and Penny ever sexually experimented with their very close and endearing friendship, although modern observers might reach the conclusion they were lesbians. I also do not recall Penny ever drinking. Had Penny been a drinker, too, I am sure anything was possible. At any rate, Penny was the closest thing I ever had to a real Aunt and she was basically a good role model of an independent career woman (having completed her nursing degree and working all her life as an RN) with some common sense.

Penny was always heavy set, while Drama Mama could and did set most Men's teeth on edge physically and enjoyed doing so. The Betty Page hair cut would be a topic for another blog discussion I suppose. I recall overhearing two conversations between Drama Mama and Penny.

The first was regarding the size of the previous night's conquest's ***ahem***. Scratch another notch in the bedpost, girl. Penny wanted to know, but before Drama Mama would answer she noticed I was listening and asked me if I knew what that word was. I don't remember anymore of the conversation,and, I think I ran off into another room.

The second conversation occurred at least a year later and involved Penny and Drama Mama discussing a series of disturbing harassing phone calls Drama Mama was receiving from another woman who was making sexual overtures involving "rubber gloves and baby bumpers." Drama Mama was trying to figure out at which "party" she had met this person at and who she was. Even as a young child, remember I was well acquainted with Drama Mama's parade of Male visitor's and what they did with Drama Mama, even if I didn't understand it.

To give her a little credit, I think she had started to make a bigger effort not to conduct these activities at home when we were around (thus, we spent alot of time with my beloved Grandma). It was pretty clear to me that this caller wanted to have sex with my mother and was attempting to invite her to something really taboo. Drama Mama expressed her revulsion to this. I think this was my first exposure to the LGBT "community" so to speak and it apparently involved what we would call the leather segment of the community today.

Uncle Doc and his Mini-me

I think it was a few months later that we went to visit Drama Mama's younger brother, Doc, back home. His "roommate" was a little person (midget was the term Drama Mama and Doc used to describe him). I think his name was Dale and I remember that Dale had a really cool car with extended foot pedals. I remember Dale falling asleep at dinner and my uncle, Doc, rushing to catch him before he toppled from his stack of phone books onto the floor. I also remember Dale walking around in his briefs during this visit which really ticked Drama Mama off. Dale and Doc had porn all over the house and Drama Mama cautioned us several times not to pick any of it up.

I remember Drama Mama and Doc having a conversation where she asked him if he was in a relationship with Dale. Doc denied this but then picked up a thick sheaf of papers which was a report from a pyschiatrist he had been seeing and told Drama Mama that this report explained why he was the way he was and it was because of the family member that had exploited Grandma, Drama Mama and her brothers. However, Doc has always denied being sexually abused by this person and in later life claimed to be interested in women.

Two Lesbians, a Baby, a Few Dogs, Many Cats and a Racoon.

I inherited a house cleaning job from another Mia Maid and she told me she thought the clients were lesbians. I said what's that? She explained and I took the job and really didn't think a lot about it except how to wonder how they got the baby. I still don't know for sure if they were lesbians and this would be the time when people were still very closeted. They also left when I came to clean, which was a very good think because this was one of the three filthiest living environments I have ever seen. These two women were both RN's working in another city in nursing management at their institution. They never, ever did dishes. I did them once a week when I came in and I can assure you they did not eat out much. There were 3 or 4 dogs, and, as I recall, thirteen cats and a racoon. One of the women also had a son who was a toddler.

They maintained separate bedrooms, one of which the bed was always made. At the time, I assumed it was because that lady was cleaner. I now think it was because she never actually slept there, it was for show when they had guests or relatives. As you might have already deduced, when I did have an interaction with them they were weird. I had a conflict come up one day and couldn't call and they called and fired me. This did not bother me.

I was always rather creeped out by the idea that I could wind up in a hospital under the care of nursing staff with such utter lack of concern for basic hygiene. Despite whatever elso abnormalities in my growing up there may have been, my trailer trash people kept a clean house and I found the utter filth of the lesbians house hard to take. I now also understand that they were classic animal hoarders and that this in and of itself is a psychiatric problem.

Two Guys, Drag Queens and the Invitation to Turn a Trick or Two

One of the cities that I spent time in as a child was know for its Gay prostitution according to Drama Mama. Grandma lived there and I went to stay with her and work for a few months. Grandma lived right downtown in the pit of hell so to speak. I did find work in a fast food restaurant and took a brief trade school course during the day so I could get started in the world of work before starting school the next January in another state. Across the street from my restaurant was a bar called "Two Guys." Most of the clientele were just regular guys who most likely were gay. I do remember some rather aggressive hitting on my manager taking place by the manager of another famous restaurant in town. We had two regulars who were drag queens and prostitutes. The white guy was obviously male. However, his black companion seriously managed to elevate this to an art form and it was difficult to tell she wasn't female.

On several occassions another customer had offered me money for sex on the street. When I saw him with the drag queens one night, I realized that they were prostitutes and remembered what my Drama Mama had said, that a woman prostitute couldn't make it in that town because of the gay male prostitutes. Not that I was interested anyway in prostitution or any kind of sex work although I often wondered if one could successfully pull off escort work without getting sucked into prostitution and had concluded it was not possible.

Stay tuned for more Wacky Taffy tomorrow.

A Schoolgirl's Pedigree

Drama Mama always resented that her mother never had more education. Grandma lamented that she never had more education. She was born in 1909 into the household of a man who farmed for shares. Her parents were "Dunkers" at one time. Religious folk who worked hard and didn't see education as practical. You had to pay for books back then and help with the upkeep of the teacher.

Grandma finished eighth grade, but then came home to help with a younger sister who was disabled and to assist a mother who had used a cane as long as she could remember. Grandma told me she had more schooling than any other child in her very large family, but that she really wanted to become a school teacher, but her father would not pay for more education.

Please understand that in this day, most country schools only went to eighth grade anyway. If a community was lucky the teacher might have enough training beyond the first level teaching certificate to teach part of the high school curriculum. I haven't went back to research what the opportunities were in Grandma's community, but I know that where I live now, some of the early school teachers had to ride long distances horseback, take a train and board with other people, or drive quite a way (which wasn't always too easy in the snow with an early vintage automobile) to get that "advanced" education.

When Grandma was eighteen she met two Soldiers. One swept her off her feet and she agreed to marry him. His friend tried to warn her that his buddy was already married, but she dismissed him as being jealous. Her husband moved her to another city and their first year of marriage was happy. One day he never came home. She heard he had transferred to Texas. When I was interviewing her as an old lady she still didn't want to talk much about the specifics.

I do not know how she got home, but she did. She began taking in laundry and would do laundry for the single men of the community. When she was 25 she was able to get her divorce from the soldier. Some time after that she became pregnant. Very shortly after that she married my grandfather who was forty years older than her. I do not know if he was the father of her first child, but I think he was.

When I asked her about this she said, "How else was I ever going to have a home of my own." I'll let you, dear reader, draw your own conclusions as to what may have transpired between these two. This would still be the era when married women could not teach school, so it's unlikely that even if she had had a teaching certificate, that it would have helped her much as far as finding employment. I do not know how divorced women faired in finding teaching positions in those days.

Grandma, truth be told was not entirely happy in this 7 year marriage, but at least she had her family that she so desired. Her husband was crippled from a work injury, pretty hard to get along with, and did not like the second child who was a daughter,Drama Mama. Things got really hard after he died and they became truly terrible for Drama Mama.

Grandma did the best she could but people and the community were not easy on her. There was a series of unfortunate events which result in the exploitation of her and her children by another family member for financial gain. This person also used this opportunity to sexually exploit Drama Mama. The four of them did eventually escape and with the two oldest teenager's earnings from their jobs were able to make their own way. Drama Mama resented it very much when her older brother joined the military and wasn't at home to help anymore.

Grandma was insistent that Drama Mama go to college and forced her rebellious teenage daughter to apply for scholarships. Drama Mama was already dating married men and going to roadhouses by this time as well as working, going to high school, and as I recall, playing high school basketball. I suppose much to Drama Mama's surprise, she received a full ride scholarship to a catholic nursing school. I think Drama Mama's older brother graduated high school but the younger one did not.

I do not know how long Drama Mama went to nursing school before being asked to leave. I've blogged about all the reasons that might have triggered that request. After, several stints waitressing and bartending, Drama Mama did take a secretarial course. She "augmented" her secretarial work with different kinds of moonlighting ranging from barmaid work to numerous sexual trysts where men would buy her clothing and take her on interesting trips. She was always very clear she wasn't a prostitute, you know, doing "it" for money. In kind was fine, though.

I think my readers will agree that it is truly miraculous that Drama Mama finally met a Mormon serviceman in a bar, who she thought was kind of cute and went home to sleep with that night. For whatever crazy reason, he took her and us kids to church the next day. We spent a lot of time with him over the next two weeks. He shipped off to Germany and he was gone. She told one of the card carrying mormon guys at work, who had been very carefully avoiding her, that she'd gone to the mormon church for the last few weeks. This fine gentleman arranged for Drama Mama and I to take the lessons and the rest is history as they say.

After joining the church and becoming a very skilled geneaologist, Drama Mama began to lament her peoples lack of respect for education. It's quite odd that she never acknowledged her own failures in this department or understood just how much Grandma did to try to set her on the right path or how Grandma's education was at least average if not greater for her time. Drama Mama had discovered that one of Grandma's male second cousins had done quite well for himself and risen to a high governmental position. She was very jealous of his education and blamed her grandparents for their lack of commitment to education.

As it turned out, I became the first member of my family on Drama Mama's side to graduate from college. I remember trying to convince Drama Mama to take an IT degree tailored expressly for reentry women from a state institution when she divorced from wicked stepfather, but she refused. Eventually she did get a bachelor's degree from a college which later closed its doors. This didn't help her much without a trade certification which she started to acquire and then gave up on.

Of my four female siblings, the three of us who were most committed to living an LDS lifestyle are the ones who also solidly maintained progress on our educations. One of us has a trade and has never stopped working in the trade. One of us is on the Mormon mommy track. And I have had the opportunity or curse depending on your outlook to combine all three and a graduate degree.

The two who have the most difficulty living the gospel are the two who, like Drama Mama, squandered the most educational opportunities. One was accepted to five major universities with partial scholarships and instead chose a prolonged period of riotous living. The other could not apply herself and gave up her athletic scholarship and married soon afterwards and stayed home for a while. Both of these women ultimately found a suitable trade and both are now working on associates degrees in their thirties.

Girl Song, my daughter, was also rebellious, but in a hyper religious way. He path to education was quite convoluted but she kept at it. Her straying from the church also correspondended with straying from education, a series of unhealthy work situations and even a brief stint of homelessness. She has gotten back on track with education and will soon have a graduate degree.

My point in all this is that if you look at this family's experience, it has not been religion that caused our women to deviate from the educational track it has been something else. If anything, our association with the LDS church has actually helped those of us who have the most education attain that education in a relatively short time frame. So, when I read that the Church keeps women from having career and educational attainment, I wonder where does this come from? Certainly, that hasn't been the experience in this family. In fact, strong commitment to the ideals and involvement with the Church seems to be a strong indicator for educational success.

Two Guys and a Prom-Part 2

At this point, in my heart of hearts, I know that Chaucer and the Kid will now be coming to our house before Prom for pictures. This still makes me a little anxious. I make The Kid go to church, mutual and seminary and DH supports me in this because of a few "incidents." DH is now agnostic and the Kid is identifying as Atheist. However, DH feels that the kid needs the moral grounding church has to offer and has remarked, "they don't check to see if you have a testimony or if you are gay at the door." DH and the Kid accordingly don't take the sacrament. But, for some weeks we've been going together as a family and I am satisfied with that.

Even when the Kid wasn't attending Sundays and Mutual, I still required Seminary attendance. My perspective was that this is the one thing that was the most important in the long run as far as, lets face it, preserving maximum options for future missionary service if any thing changed testimony wise. Attaining Eagle Scout also fell by the wayside due to the twin barriers of no belief in God and LGBT or questioning identity.

With Seminary graduation looming, I fear (but have no knowledge that this would be the case) that somehow his graduation could be impacted either by official decree or the Kid winding up being too embarassed to attend after going with Chaucer to the prom. But, truth be told I think many of his friends and his leaders already know. High school social consequences are zero for a variety of reasons I won't go into.

I'd rather not have to explain ourselves to any outlying do gooder who doesn't already know that the Song family is pretty out there anyway as far as being card carrying liberals. But every LDS congregation, no mather how tolerant, has at least 1 or 2 of these types of personalities. And, often I've found these vocal few to be some of the folks with the greatest problems in their own personal lives-think homophobic closeted gay folk. The Kid thinks there won't be any problems. I think he is right.

We also wondered if Chaucer was really serious about doing this and if he would get cold feet? I wondered if the Kid would take this as another rejection. The Kid assured me that his relationship was really much more casual and that he would be ok if Chaucer got cold feet.

I then told the Kid that it is my wish that he find a nice Mormon boy to settle down with. The Kid both liked this and found it uncomfortable. I also said that I hoped both would attend church regardless of excommunication, disfellowship or whatever. He asked, "How would I introduce my husband in Elder's Quorum?" "What if we have kids?" We said, you will introduce him as your husband if you are legally married in a state that allows gay marriage. If you are in a state that allows domestic partnerships, you will introduce him as your partner and that will be that. If you have kids, you will introduce them as your kids with your partner or husband.

And, that will be that.

We also shared about our family friend who went on a mission and is now marrying her girlfriend she fell in love with as a heterosexual woman. He got a kick out of the cute Mormon "lesbians."

DH supports gay marriage and I am just so tired of the whole debate that I no longer participate politically on the issue. If the Kid marries a woman, I will go to the wedding and do the traditional parenting things. If the Kid marries a man, I will go to the wedding and do the traditional parenting things. God can sort all of this out in the millenium.

Two Guys and a Prom-Part 1

So last night the Kid asked me how I felt about him going to his friend Chaucer's (name changed here) prom in May. Oh the mixed feelings and logistics of it all as a something more than straight, living to have no regrets, active member mormon lady of a certain age parent. Where to start?

First of all, we know Chaucer, and his most memorable imprint upon us as parents was his disturbing lack of hygiene. However, we haven't seen him for a year, and the Kid assures us Chaucer has undergone something of a metamorphosis. The Kid is a stud muffin and when not fighting the dreaded teenage acne, and even when the facial eruptions occur looks pretty good even if I say so myself. DH and I don't make no junk when it comes to offspring, although we always wonder how this could be(being relatively dweebish ourselves), genetically, we seem to have combined well to produce better specimens in our offspring. Yes, I am a braggard.

Second, the Kid wanted to know if he should bring Chaucer to the house or meet him elsewhere. What's the problem you may ask? Well, there is a little brother who is cognitively delayed and the original birds and bees talks have been difficult enough, but now we will need to explain to him why the Kid has a male date. And, then how does this fit or not fit in with gospel principles and what does this mean for our family? Fortunately, the Kid has thought about this and has some good ideas for the talks with little brother. I think the next few weeks of Family Home Evening are going to be very interesting . . . .

Third, the Kid's previous two male romantic interests (before them he previously had two girlfriends-one who is now his best friend) have now decided they are straight. This was a bit of a blow to his self esteem as a budding bisexual or gay man. The Kid readily admits that there is something incredibly exhilerating about Chaucer asking him to the Prom after these experiences. I thought it was kind of funny when DH said, "You don't have to go with him, just because he was the only guy who asked you."

And as I now have to run off to work, I must leave the post incomplete. Stay tuned for installment two wherein I share the high points of the family discussion of the hypothetical of how the Kid should introduce any future husband he might have in Elders Quorum.

Sexual Orientation is a Choice-Political Feminism

So you wonder why large numbers of LDS people believe that sexual orientation is a choice? Look no further than political feminism and separatist feminism for your answer. Political feminism argued that women should choose lesbianism as a way of combating the patriarchy. Chief among the proponents of separatist feminism was Sonia Johnson, the mormon ERA (Equal Rights Amendment) advocate who later went onto a very colorful life in feminist and lesbian extremes outside the mainstream culture. She was the most famous LDS LGBT person of her time.

Marrwiage, Marrwiage, Marrwiage . . .

Quiet Song discovered the interesting but rather two dimensional debate about the recent civil marriage policy petition over at Mormon Matters belatedly. In a moment of personal retrospection, she wishes she had eloped, and, then, later, when actually making the decision to be sealed, had opted for an even smaller sealing session. It would have been just as meaniningful on both occassions. This would have, of course, cut out Drama Mama (I think she was there), but in the end she really cared less anyway. Other Non-LDS family members have chosen to elope or to have very small ceremonies and no one complained . . . .

On the other hand, one of Quiet Song's children married civilly this year and Quiet Song was amazed at how happy the kids were with their party. But, she also knew what they missed out in terms of the character and promise of a temple sealing. Quiet Song thinks that there is a vast gulf between the civil marriage party and the sacred ordinance of a temple sealing and wonders if the attempt to meld the two vastly different celebrations is inherently bound to be jarring just by their very natures.

Officiating at a marriage is the one priesthood function that Quiet Song wishes she could perform. However, since she will never serve as a temple sealer or a bishop, and would not want the calling of the latter anyway, that would leave other paths to becoming an officiant the only options. Quiet Song has friends who are ordained ministers through various internet entities but would not choose that route either. This leaves the options of becoming a sitting superior or appellate court judge or moving to a state where notaries perform civil ceremonies.

As a result, for the time being, Quiet Song will simply have to be content with assisting the heartbroken, angry, bitter and hateful with ending their legally binding intimate relationships with as much grace and dignity as possible.

Will You Be Ready or Would You Be Filled With Regret?

It wasn't easy to deal with a child's questioning and or coming out and many LDS families struggle mightily to find their own path when dealing with an LGBT child. I'm watching this unfold in another family at the moment, and, while I wish I could help, I'm not sure I can. If called upon for my thoughts, in addition to doing the best I can to let them know I understand what they are going through, and, that to a lesser degree I understand a little something about the experience of their LGBT child, perhaps I would pose a few questions to the parents and siblings in this family as follows:

If the Church suddenly did change its position on matters of sexual orientation, gender and gay marriage, would you be ready or would you be filled with regret? Bear with me and let's not sidetrack into the obvious arguments and comparisons that could be made with other policy and doctrinal elements of the LDS Church and stay with the exercise at hand.

Would your child know that you unconditionally loved him or her?

Would your child's LGBT loved ones know they are welcome in your family?

Would your child's testimony be intact?

If your sibling or child's testimony was no longer intact, could you be partially or fully to blame?

Would you regret things that you said or did in the past regarding your loved one's sexual orientation or gender identification?

Would you still be able to follow the prophet and the quorum of the twelve or would you feel so entrenched in your previous beliefs that you would desire to leave the church?

Would you be able to rejoice with your sibling or child and his or her partner at the new opportunities for spiritual progression now open to them?

May we all fill our lamps with the light of Christ this holiday season and seek to conduct ourselves in such a way that regardless of where this journey takes us all that we may do so with love, faith, and testimony of a living Christ and his love for all of us.

The Lesbians Next Door

Some years ago, two women and various children moved in next door to our family, and, after hearing them have a loud and rather "coupled" sounding argument, I concluded they were lesbians. A couple of days later I had a conversation with them and one asked me if I was Mormon. I was surprised but she had seen enough in a short period of time lving next door (family heading off to church, kids to seminary, etc.), where she was certain that we were. She then mentioned that she, too, was LDS. I told her when Church was and invited her to attend. She declined the invitation and indicated that she hadn't been in sometime following an awful divorce and didn't plan on going any time soon.

I remember telling my Bishop about my new neighbors and letting him know that I thought they were lesbians. To which he rather testily told me that I didn't know that, that they could just be sharing expenses. As it turned out, both women became friends and after the LDS sister reactivated and married one of the local single guys from the ward, I finally told her and she laughed and laughed, although she admitted that other people had concluded the same thing. Bishop was right and I was wrong.

As I've thought about this over the years, I've decided that this is a profound case of my laying my own bias, experience and preference issues over a situaiton to come to a conclusion that I really had no facts to support. As a practical matter, nothing was different in terms of our family's dealing with our supposed "part member lesbian couple" next door, but I made some assumptions that I think were more based on my own same sex attraction experiences than on any other credible evidence.

Therefore, I have had to acknowledge over the years that people as unique individuals often do perceive the same things differently. Until recently when I had to confront the issue more directly, I had always thought that most if not all people had some same sex attraction. I suppose this is why I never found my own experience troubling. If everyone really is bisexual, what is the big deal? But, as I am now finding out, the overwhelming majority of people claim not to experience sexuality the way I do.

Last night I dreamed a crazy dream . . .

Last night I dreamed a crazy dream about two persons I "know" only from online connections. I actually have limited connections even online with with only one. Both were setting up businesses near where I had a business location. "Good" online persona dropped by my home to crash our summer backyard Family Home Evening (at a home I've never seen or lived at before) and Drama Mama was actually there without being dramatic. My family enjoyed meeting "Good" as did I. "Bad" online persona knew he was bad and knew that I knew him even though we never had exchanged any direct communication. "Bad" was setting up a Pizza and Deli place around the corner from myself and "Good." "Bad" was very bad, and I had to have a very assertive face to face conversation with him where I set the record straight, so to speak, and laid out my expectations of his behavior, and what the consequences would be if he did not toe the line. "Bad" agreed to comply and gave me a copy of his menu which had a number of tasty looking items on it.

I rather think I am spending too much time online.

In the year and a half I've been reading Moho blogs several have went private or closed. And, I've felt sadness about that. Why, I'll never intellectually understand. Bad and Good personas are not within that group. I don't even think "Bad" blogs, just makes troll posts on various blogs I read throughout the blogosphere. Through reading blogs and posting, I have received comfort on my political/religious/social/familial/emotional interface boundary issues and internal conflicts regarding gay marriage and parenting a LGBT teenager.

I've tried to ascertain what it means to me to be a person who has been attracted to both sexes. I still don't have any clearer answer and cannot determine whether I have a true identity as a straight person or an identity as an LGBT person or if I just stay with the "sexual" person categorization I gave myself years ago. I think the kid has more of an LGBT identity, but he shows signs of possbily jettisoning that as well in favor of the "sexual person" identity his parent has adopted as he grows up.

Thanks to Drama Mama, I'm now also really questioning what I want to keep from my family of origin identity. There isn't much lovely or of good report. I have a small ethnic identity which I'm going to expand upon. Thanks to Drama Mama, that was stripped from me as a child, but I'm now going to reclaim it and make it a bigger part of my life. I have a beloved elder who was in my life and that person is a part of my identity. Drama Mama did provide me the gospel in her inimitable theatrical way, though, and that seems to be the real key to my identity.

This was confirmed through yet another online type of experience, a list serve, it is the gospel part that seems to make the greatest difference to me in defining who I am. It's not my membership in the LDS church, it is my own personal relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. And, it occurs to me that this identity is really the only one that matters. That is what blogging has done for me.

I had also hoped to provide another voice, one that doesn't get heard often within the cacophony of debate. I think I've done that. So, like others I'm going quiet for a while although I'll probably leave this blog up for a long time even if I don't post again.

But now back to real life.

Questions answered

I've decided to answer Abelard's questions.

How did you get to where you are today?

It's really hard to answer this question because it's so multi-faceted. Life happened. One day I realized that I was attracted to a member of the same sex. I felt no guilt. Period. No guilt. I remained attracted to the opposite sex too, including my marital partner. And others. And then others of the same sex. No guilt, no shame. Why should I?

I understood that I am a sexual person. I never felt the need to self-identify as bisexual, although I have on occasion expressed the thought that others might say I am bisexual. I often said I had no doubts but for my belief in the church that I could easily live and love with a member of the same sex. I am not a young person.

I found it much more difficult to deal with a child coming out who actually wanted to have overtly gay and bisexual relationships. The church's involvement in proposition 8 exacerbated these problems for me and my family. Please note, however, that I don't disagree with the Church and or other member's rights to engage lawfully in the political process.

Are you happy with where you are? why or why not?

I wish that my loved ones were more firm in their testimonies. I am happy where I am with my testimony. I am happy with my sexuality and my sex life. I worry about my spouse's health and what living in old age will bring for us. I do still suffer post traumatic stress symptoms from a number of traumatic events in my life and regular stress from my challenging career. I take an anti-depressant, it helps me sleep and keeps the nightmares manageable.

I am both looking forward to and dreading the empty nest at the same time.

I feel blessed by the atonement and the promises of the endowment. I feel my savior's love. I fasted and prayed a lot for understanding, comfort, for my loved ones this past year. I had a great calling which caused me to really delve into the scriptures. I grew so much in my ability to love in faith. That has made all the difference in the world.

I discovered with gratitude that I don't have to bear all the burdens of this time (specifically the political chaos over gay marriage) and that I could in faith lay this burden at my Savior's feet. And I did.

So yes, I am overall very happy with where I am at now although fifteen months ago I was definitely very much in a crisis.

Where do you see yourself in the future?

I hope to have the opportunity to be of significant service to people in developing nations before I die.

I hope I am prepared to pass on to the other side of the veil fully qualified for all the blessings of the celestial kingdom.

I would like to accelerate my spiritual growth in the second half of my life.

What roadblocks do you have and/or have overcome?

I failed, earlier in life, to understand that I was a child of God and just as good as anyone else in church. I learned, only recently, that there was so much more fulness of the gospel than I had been partaking of. I am now feasting.

What advice do you have for others following a similar path that you have?

Seek medical treatment where it is warranted and don't dismiss modern medications, there are many choices. Too many people are reluctant, embarassed or too prideful to admit that they might have a problem that is biological in origin.

Seek to deal with any post traumatic stress symptoms you may have.

Don't waste time looking for easy answers to difficult questions-there aren't any.

Don't engage in guilt where you have done nothing wrong.

Do fully partake of the opportunity to repent when you have sinned or wronged another.

Read the scriptures deeply to answer your own objections, learn to read in context of the times they were written in, pray and fast.

Cherish and develop friendships with both sexes within appropriate bounds. Become a person of warmth.

What advice do you have for family and friends?

Please be respectful of others sexuality. It is not fodder for humor or put downs. I especially do not like jokes about transpeople.

Testimonies are key, do everything you can to keep and grow yours.

Please choose to stay within the church even when you feel as though you are so different, the church is true and it is for everyone. The "details" such as they are can be sorted out in the millenium.

Suicides

So, I have a problem. My problem is that I don't really follow the speculative line of reasoning that blames the LDS church for the suicides on the "list." While it is certainly true that some individuals on the list left notes or otherwise indicated their "relationship" with the church was part of the reason they committed suicide, doesn't this whole issue really require a little more introspection and honesty?

For example, let's get real and acknowledge the extraordinarily high incidence of the use of guns in suicides. The list doesn't provide enough information to determine how each individual took their lives, but I suspect it would not shake out too differently from the national statistics showing that guns are the primary way men commit suicide. Secondly, let's consider the very sad problem of men, society and clinicians not properly diagnosing and treating depression appropriately. When we have 40 names on the list spanning a 50 year time frame and they are nearly all male, shouldn't that be a part of the discussion as well? Is grief and loss a factor? Sure it is just like in the rest of the population. What about co-morbidities, the list offers little information about drug, alcohol and non-depression psychiatric disorders?

The one co-morbidity that does make a little sense in the course of the conversation is post-traumatic stress disorder. People with PTSD from any source are at a much higher risk of depression and suicide. So if one could actually link diagnosable PTSD with clear incidents or patterns of discrimination you might be able to make this claim, but if we are going to list folks whose PTSD may have to do with other stressful events (I don't consider getting picked up for cruising in public places to be discrimination), let's not find causation where it doesn't exist.

For more information on suicide please see this fact sheet.

Porn -Wherein I Reveal Too Much

This post reflects a certain attitude within the church that the general authorities and other leaders positions on porn are too overstated. I wish I could agree with the author, but I can't. As a person who works in a helping occupation, I've seen the families and marriages destroyed by porn.

I've seen the poorly thought out myspace photo turned into child porn by unscrupulous lawyers. I've seen Judges, child protective services and others take a picture of a beautiful young sexy mother and turn her into a threat to her child, just because they are looking for an excuse and any excuse will do. I've seen a priesthood holder split hairs a la Bill Clinton and violate children spiritually in his own household via the use of pornography coupled with personal belongings of the child (perverted but not entirely criminal). I've seen the husband move on from the porn to another woman at the pain and financial expense of his partner. I've seen the wife who disposes of the husband because he no longers meets the cultural icons of porn as portrayed in multiple forms of media.

Elder Scott wisely reminded us of all the types of passion that interfere with the spirit. Political porn, (here and here) is almost as bad as sexual porn. I highly recommend Alec Baldwin's great essay on political porn. Gun porn has a lot to do with the availability and unfortunate use of weapons. Anger and the addictive lure of expressing righteous indignation also interferes with the spirit. I think he just might have a little more experience helping members with these issues than we want to admit.

Conflicted and . . . in hiding?

Today, I passed on a work opportunity I would have liked to pursue. Why? Because I'm not liberal enough in terms of my support (or lack thereof) of gay marriage. As I mentioned in a previous post, I blog elsewhere and I've mentioned that I don't support expanding marriage beyond the way it is currently configured in 45 states in America in one of those blogs.


I'm slightly ashamed to say that my take on this matter is not as predictable as one would think. I think the real threat to my church is all the other forms of alternative marriage beyond gay marriage. Yes, it's the "p" word. Polygamy is the major threat to the church from alternative marriage. I believe most folks in today's society, given a non-stigmatized response to it, would choose this configuration for marriage and not necessarily in the format previously practiced by the Mormons in the 1800's.

And that's not the half of it. Here is where I'm really jaundiced or cynical. Take your average brother and sister in the church and they are fascinated by Mormon celebrities be they people who are subjects of public acclaim or persons associated with men holding high ranking priesthood callings. Some people do want to be affiliated with certain families and it's my belief that you would see massive disruption among "lower tier" families when some of our dear sisters go shopping for a better model.

And if I want three wives and three husbands, is there anything that would really prohibit that from happening in the brave new world? This would be my ideal if we were simply talking about preferences without any boundaries. I could very, very easily be polyamorous. And yet, upon further reflection and weighing it against my decades of marriage, I'd have to say I'd be nuts to actually try it.

On the other hand, as long as my church and other churches have the right to solemnize only the types of marriages they believe they should, what do I really care how the next person chooses to be married? Perhaps the solution is to make marriage solely a civil function of the state. In the end, I just don't want to deal with the issue. And, I've decided that I'm not going to engage in the debate if it comes up locally.

A Broken Heart and a Contrite Spirit

Recently, I've dealt more with anxiety than I care to. There are many reasons for this, but I worry for my children, especially the one dealing with a same sex attraction. I wish my child would read posts like this one by Charles Mitchell, but if a parent's experience in living with an opposite sex spouse for a very long time and somehow managing to carry on in the relationship despite many more overwhelming problems than same sex attraction, isn't enough, what is?

Every so often I have to admit, that I cannot solve every problem or find the just the right persuasive words to soften hearts and change actions. When I finally admit that I can't do it without help and that the sadness at watching a dear child make bad choices is overwhelming, that's when I remember the promises of the Savior to those who come to him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I cherish the great blessing of peace when I acknowledge his sacrifice and knowledge of my pain and the comforter sends peace which courses through my soul and lifts my burdens.

I was very touched by Charles Mitchell's open letter to struggles in the blog post link above for a number of reasons ranging from his experience receiving his patriarchial blessing (I also had a line in my patriarchial blessing which I felt and still feel directly addressed my same sex attractions) to the wonderful testimony of successfully living within the bounds the Lord has set for our marital and familial relations.

Entering the World of Moho Bloggers, Ever So Timidly

A certain amount of angst seems to power "moho" blogs, which I don't feel. Maybe more because I'm "mobi," or less because I have lived traditionally (not always entirely happily due to non-sexuality based problems) with a member of the opposite sex in a marital relationship for decades within the LDS Church (mormons). This blog is a response to original mohomie's remark that he just doesn't "see" people like me in the blogosphere. Well we exist and I'll try to find a thing or two to blog about occassionally.

What has created more than a little angst for me is the issue of gay marriage, I was well adapted to marriage as we then knew it and I still have some concerns about whether or not polygamy isn't next on the list of alternative marriage practices under the law and whether or not freedom of religion under the United States Constitution will somehow be compromised. More on these worries some other time. The other motivating angst has arisen from a child coming out. Wow, it's one thing to deal with your own issues and find peace, but quite another to find the same peace with a child threatening to careen recklessly around the the most salacious aspects of the "gay scene."

So there is some grist for the blog mill . . . all in due time.